Things Are Looking Up for MSNBC’s Chris Hayes
The host of MSNBC’s Up With Chris Hayes is a one-time labor reporter who swapped his notepad for a TV studio, but didn’t lose his pro-union, progressive politics along the way. This summer saw the release of his first book, Twilight of the Elites: America After Meritocracy, in which he examines the growing divide between the haves and the have-nots in this country.
You’ve called widening income inequality “the core economic fact of America.” What changes that?
That’s the $64,000 question. I think history shows that actual disruption to the status quo tends to do that.
A few years back, you wrote, “Without the American labor movement there is no America left.” What did you mean by that?
We have unionism and labor as one of America’s core fundamental organizing principles. Trade unionism presents a check on the excesses of democratic capitalism. It’s very hard to conceive of what a more equitable society looks like without a reintegrated American labor movement.
Let’s talk about pensions. There’s incredible animosity being ginned up in the average American about his neighbor, a public service worker, who has a pension. Really the question needs to be, why doesn’t he want one for himself? Shouldn’t more Americans be demanding this form of retirement security that was once more prevalent?
Absolutely. This is compensation. You negotiate for what you’re going to get paid. This isn’t a giveaway. This is part of someone’s compensation – it’s just deferred. Be pissed off at the politicians who wanted to make promises that they wouldn’t have to keep and now want to renege on the promises of their predecessors. That’s what’s morally contemptible. Given the gyrations of the financial markets, it’s remarkable to me that that hasn’t changed our national conversation around retirement security. If you happen to retire at the wrong time, you’re screwed. Why is that the system that we want?
How can labor and progressives work more closely together?
It’s just really important to balance the talk of labor’s decline with the fact that there are still millions of people in the labor movement. Wisconsin really reinvigorated that coalition of solidarity. The question is now what? What are the demands? What can be delivered? What can progressives help with in the terms of those demands? What is there proactively that can happen? Minimum wage might be a really fruitful place for partnership.
Last question: What makes you optimistic about America?
America has overcome some really horrible forms of oppression and tyranny that must have looked like they’d go on forever. Night riders in the Reconstruction South and lynching. We just cannot lose sight of the miracle of progress that is represented by the history of the nation. The kind of improbable delicacy of democracy.
Portions of this interview condensed for clarity. You can read a longer interview with Hayes on AFSCME’s blog. Pick up a copy of Hayes’ new book, “Twilight of the Elites: America After Meritocracy,” on Powells.com. His show airs 8 to 10 a.m. (ET), Saturday and Sunday.
